Yeah, absolutely. They somehow have a dye, and don't ask me how they know this or how they figured it out, but they have a little stain that they can put on the springtails to tell if they're alive or dead. ROBERT: I'm not gonna tell you. It's doing like a triple double axel backflip or something into the sky. Never mind.". So I don't have a problem. ROBERT: Like, I don't understand -- learning, as far as I understand it, is something that involves memory and storage. Right? You give me -- like, I want wind, birds, chipmunks JAD: Like, I'm not, like, your sound puppet here. So the -- this branching pot thing. I remember going in at the uni on a Sunday afternoon. I don't know if that was the case for your plants. The problem is is with plants. Fan, light, lean. ROBERT: I do want to go back, though, to -- for something like learning, like, I don't understand -- learning, as far as I understand it, is something that involves memory and storage. An expert. On one side, instead of the pipe with water, she attaches an MP3 player with a little speaker playing a recording of And then on the other side, Monica has another MP3 player with a speaker. And Basically expanding it from a kind of a column of a pit to something that's -- we could actually grab onto his front legs and pull him out. That's a parade I'll show up for. Take it. They're switched on. Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, we dig into the work of evolutionary ecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns our. And again. Wait. JENNIFER FRAZER: So there's these little insects that lives in the soil, these just adorable little creatures called springtails. And if you go to too many rock concerts, you can break these hairs and that leads to permanent hearing loss, which is bad. And then I would cover them in plastic bags. Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? Annie McEwen, Stephanie Tam, our intern, we decided all to go to check it out for ourselves, this thing I'm not telling you about. But what I do know is that the fact that the plant doesn't have a brain doesn't -- doesn't a priori say that the plants can't do something. Oh, one more thing. You know, they talk about how honeybee colonies are sort of superorganisms, because each individual bee is sort of acting like it's a cell in a larger body. ]. ROBERT: So the beetles don't want to eat them. LARRY UBELL: All right, my hypothesis is that what happens is LARRY UBELL: Can I -- can I have a few minutes? Radiolab - Smarty Plants. So these trees were basically covered with bags that were then filled with radioactive gas. I was like, "Oh, my God! -- they spring way up high in the air. And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. So this Wood Wide Web, is this just, like, the roots? Never mind. Anyone who's ever had a plant in a window knows that. Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. Never mind. Yours is back of your house, but let's make it in the front. The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. 2018. So we went back to Monica. They need light to grow. Can Robert get Jad to join the march? Can the tree feel you ripping the roots out like that? "I'm under attack!". ROBERT: So now, they had the radioactive particles inside their trunks and their branches. 2016. JENNIFER FRAZER: They had learned to associate the sound of the bell ROBERT: Which has, you know, for dogs has nothing to do with meat. That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking this way. JENNIFER FRAZER: Oh, yeah. Like, would they figure it out faster this time? ROBERT: Actually, Monica's dog leads perfectly into her third experiment, which again will be with a plant. Hobbled, really. LARRY UBELL: Yes, we are related. Or maybe it's the fungus under the ground is kind of like a broker and decides who gets what. We dropped. JENNIFER FRAZER: Right? I don't really need it all right now. Because the only reason why the experiment turned out to be 28 days is because I ran out of time. Like, the tree was, like, already doing that stuff by itself, but it's the fungus that's doing that stuff? And she wondered whether that was true. I was like, "Oh, my God! That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking it this way. JAD: Yeah, absolutely. ROBERT: Is your dog objecting to my analysis? These guys are actually doing it." So he brought them some meat. ROBERT: By the way, should we establish -- is it a fact that you're ALVIN UBELL: He's on the right track. So what they're saying is even if she's totally sealed the pipe so there's no leak at all, the difference in temperature will create some condensation on the outside. You should definitely go out and check out her blog, The Artful Amoeba, especially to the posts, the forlorn ones about plants. JAD: Coming up on the Plant Parade, we get to the heart -- or better yet, the root -- of a very specific type of plant. I'm 84. Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, wedig into the work of evolutionaryecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns ourbrain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. ANNIE MCEWEN: What was your reaction when you saw this happen? Hey, it's okay. They play with sound and story in a way that's incredibly intriguing, I was instantly hooked with More Perfect. And I know lots of kids do that, but I was especially ROBERT: I'm sorry? You're doing the -- like, okay first it was the roots under the ground all connected into a whole hive thing. ROBERT: Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. Seasonally. Or even learn? And we were all like, "Oh, my goodness! And when they go in SUZANNE SIMARD: There is Jigs at the bottom of the outhouse, probably six feet down at the bottom of the outhouse pit. So we went back to Monica. As abundant as what was going on above ground. ROBERT: What do mean, the fungi will give me my sugar back? ROBERT: Now, you might think that the plant sends out roots in every direction. LINCOLN TAIZ: Yes. ROBERT: But that scientist I mentioned MONICA GAGLIANO: My name is Monica Gagliano. Her use of metaphor. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, plants really like light, you know? Remember I told you how trees make sugar? Because what she does next is three days later, she takes these plants back into the lab. Like, I don't understand -- learning, as far as I understand it, is something that involves memory and storage. So if a beetle were to invade the forest, the trees tell the next tree over, "Here come the --" like Paul Revere, sort of? Two very different options for our plant. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah. SUZANNE SIMARD: When I was a little kid, I would be in the forest and I'd just eat the forest floor. ROBERT: I don't know why you have problems with this. Like, as in the fish. Me first. "I'm under attack!". WHRO is Hampton Roads' local NPR / PBS Station. They can't take up CO2. Well, maybe. It's almost as if the forest is acting as an organism itself. And then JENNIFER FRAZER: They secrete acid. ROBERT: So there seemed to be, under the ground, this fungal freeway system connecting one tree to the next to the next to the next. They may have this intelligence, maybe we're just not smart enough yet to figure it out. Me first. [ASHLEY: Hi. So we are going to meet a beautiful little plant called a mimosa pudica, which is a perfectly symmetrical plant with leaves on either side of a central stem. ROBERT: Could a plant learn to associate something totally random like a bell with something it wanted, like food? ROBERT: We, as you know, built your elevator. I'm a professor emeritus of plant biology at UC Santa Cruz. Sugar. If you get too wrapped up in your poetic metaphor, you're very likely to be misled and to over-interpret the data. Handheld? So I don't have a problem. They can also send warning signals through the fungus. I don't know if that was the case for your plants. And for a long time, they were thought of as plants. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of Science and Technology in the modern world. RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH: It's the equivalent of a human being jumping over the Eiffel Tower. So it wasn't touching the dirt at all. To remember? Landing very comfortably onto a padded base made of foam. ROBERT: There's -- on the science side, there's a real suspicion of anything that's anthropomorphizing a plant. And might as well start the story back when she was a little girl. Just a boring set of twigs. I mean, it's just -- it's reacting to things and there's a series of mechanical behaviors inside the plant that are just bending it in the direction. I don't think Monica knows the answer to that, but she does believe that, you know, that we humans We are a little obsessed with the brain. Or it's just the vibration of the pipe that's making it go toward it. And if you go to too many rock concerts, you can break these hairs and that leads to permanent hearing loss, which is bad. ROBERT: Oh, well that's a miracle. So we're really -- like this is -- we're really at the very beginning of this. Start of message. LARRY UBELL: Me first. ROBERT: Nothing happened at all. Like, I say, it's early in the season. Picasso! Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. And of course we had to get Jigs out. Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. ROBERT: That would be sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals. And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. It's gone. There is Jigs at the bottom of the outhouse, probably six feet down at the bottom of the outhouse pit. Nothing happened at all. This is not so good" signal through the network. So they didn't. Okay. So he brought them some meat. And right in the middle of the yard is a tree. They stopped folding up. But now we know, after having looked at their DNA, that fungi are actually very closely related to animals. And what we found was that the trees that were the biggest and the oldest were the most highly connected. And I met a plant biologist who's gonna lead that parade. But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. MONICA GAGLIANO: Picasso, enough of that now. ROBERT: Fan, light, lean. They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces. Like, how can a plant -- how does a plant do that? And she says this time they relaxed almost immediately. When they did this, they saw that a lot of the springtails that had the tubes inside them were still alive. Support Radiolab today atRadiolab.org/donate. This story was nurtured and fed and ultimately produced by Annie McEwen. You got somewhere to go? ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. And I'm wondering whether Monica is gonna run into, as she tries to make plants more animal-like, whether she's just gonna run into this malice from the scientific -- I'm just wondering, do you share any of that? Jad and Robert, theyare split on this one. ROBERT: She took some plants, put them in a pot that restricted the roots so they could only go in one of just two directions, toward the water pipe or away from the water pipe. JAD: If the -- if the tube system is giving the trees the minerals, how is it getting it, the minerals? SUZANNE SIMARD: Jigs emerged. This happens to a lot of people. When you go into a forest, you see a tree, a tall tree. 526; 4 years ago; Smarty Plants by Radiolab. ROBERT: And the idea was, she wanted to know like, once the radioactive particles were in the tree, what happens next? Now the plants if they were truly dumb, they'd go 50/50. Wait a second. It's like, no, no, I don't do that. ROBERT: They would salivate and then eat the meat. Like what she saw in the outhouse? He uses it to train his border www.npr.org Before you begin to think that this is weird science, stop. We waiting for the leaves to, you know, stop folding. ROBERT: So it's not that it couldn't fold up, it's just that during the dropping, it learned that it didn't need to. Begins with a woman. Ring, meat, eat. ROBERT: Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. Why waste hot water? This is the headphones? I mean again, it's a tree. You know, they talk about how honeybee colonies are sort of superorganisms, because each individual bee is sort of acting like it's a cell in a larger body. ROBERT: She took that notion out of the garden into her laboratory. And now, if you fast-forward roughly 30 years, she then makes a discovery that I find kind of amazing. There was a healthier community when they were mixed and I wanted to figure out why. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. So we are going to meet a beautiful little plant called a mimosa pudica, which is a perfectly symmetrical plant with leaves on either side of a central stem. It's not leaking. SUZANNE SIMARD: Basically expanding it from a kind of a column of a pit to something that's -- we could actually grab onto his front legs and pull him out. And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. JENNIFER FRAZER: But we don't know. And what she discovered is that all these trees, all these trees that were of totally different species were sharing their food underground. And she goes into that darkened room with all the pea plants. And it begins to look a lot like an airline flight map, but even more dense. JAD: But still. That's the place where I remember things. Jad and Robert, theyare split on this one. And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? ROBERT: And then she waited a few more days and came back. ROBERT: The Ubells see this happening all the time. Because I have an appointment. ROBERT: She says a timber company would move in and clear cut an entire patch of forest, and then plant some new trees. JENNIFER FRAZER: In the little springtail bodies there were little tubes growing inside them. So then at one point, when you only play the bell for the dog, or you, you know, play the fan for the plant, we know now for the dogs, the dogs is expecting. JAD: That is cool. ROY HALLING: Like, I say, it's early in the season. So actually, I think you were very successful with your experiment. Listen to one of these podcasts: (Read the summaries and choose the one you want) Radiolab - Update: CRISPR Radiolab - Cellmates Radiolab - Shrink Radiolab - From Tree to Shining Tree Radiolab - Antibodies Part 1: CRISPR Radiolab - Galapagos Radiolab - Smarty Plants Radiolab - Super Cool For the main post please include: Title I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. And they still remembered. The glass is not broken. Well, I have one thing just out of curiosity ROBERT: As we were winding up with our home inspectors, Alvin and Larry Ubell, we thought maybe we should run this metaphor idea by them. And the tubes branch and sometimes they reconnect. Yeah. And she goes on to argue that had we been a little bit more steady and a little bit more consistent, the plants would have learned and would have remembered the lesson. JAD: We've all seen houseplants do that, right? This is by the way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents. Crossposted by 4 years ago. I mean, I see the dirt. ROBERT: Absolutely not. LARRY UBELL: Yes, we are related. But let me just -- let me give it a try. The bell, the meat and the salivation. He shoves away the leaves, he shoves away the topsoil. The water is still in there. ROBERT: It's kind of -- it's shaped like MONICA GAGLIANO: Like the letter Y, but upside down. Fan, light, lean. ROBERT: When we last left off, I'm just saying you just said intelligence. I thought okay, so this is just stupid. I mean, it's -- like, when a plant bends toward sunlight. That is actually a clue in what turns out to be a deep, deep mystery. ROBERT: When you go into a forest, you see a tree, a tall tree. ROBERT: Science writer Jen Frazer gave us kind of the standard story. Today, Robert drags Jad along on a parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. It's a very interesting experiment, and I really want to see whether it's correct or not. Whatever. There's not a leak in the glass. And the pea plant leans toward them. No, so for example, lignin is important for making a tree stand up straight. Yeah. They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. Right? You mean you got down on all fours and just And so my mom always talks about how she had to constantly be giving me worm medicine because I was -- I always had worms. So we figured look, if it's this easy and this matter of fact, we should be able to do this ourselves and see it for ourselves. I can scream my head off if I want to. LARRY UBELL: It's kind of like a cold glass sitting on your desk, and there's always a puddle at the bottom. They still remembered. Can you -- will you soften your roots so that I can invade your root system?" ROBERT: This is very like if you had a little helmet with a light on it. Monica thought about that and designed a different experiment. The plants would always grow towards the light. I don't know if that was the case for your plants. Radiolab. ROBERT: I'm not making this up. SUZANNE SIMARD: We're sitting on the exposed root system, which is like -- it is like a mat. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: This is Jennifer Frazer, and I'm a freelance science writer and blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. And the pea plants are left alone to sit in this quiet, dark room feeling the breeze. Yeah. It's a costly process for this plant, but ROBERT: She figured out they weren't tired. ROBERT: Okay. Yeah, plants really like light, you know? Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. So otherwise they can't photosynthesize. Birds, please. And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. It's a costly process for this plant, but ROBERT: She figured out they weren't tired. Yeah. I guess you could call it a mimosa plant drop box. You know, one of those little jeweler's glasses? Never mind.". Of Accurate Building Inspectors. Picasso! JAD: It was curling each time when it ROBERT: Every time. Why is this network even there? I've been looking around lately, and I know that intelligence is not unique to humans. So I don't have an issue with that. They all went closed. Except in this case instead of a chair, they've got a little plant-sized box. Pics! ROBERT: Huh. So they figured out who paid for the murder. They're switched on. MONICA GAGLIANO: Light is obviously representing dinner. And the tubes branch and sometimes they reconnect. AATISH BHATIA: All right. They have to -- have to edit in this together. Very similar to the sorts of vitamins and minerals that humans need. What do mean, the fungi will give me my sugar back? Isn't -- doesn't -- don't professors begin to start falling out of chairs when that word gets used regarding plants? Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. Jigs is in trouble!" That is cool. SUZANNE SIMARD: No, so for example, lignin is important for making a tree stand up straight. They need light to grow. ], [ALVIN UBELL: Maria Mata -- Maria Matasar ], [LARRY UBELL: Maria Matasar-Padilla is our Managing Director. And for a long time, they were thought of as plants. Like, would they figure it out faster this time? ROBERT: Ring, meat, eat. JAD: Are you bringing the plant parade again? JENNIFER FRAZER: An anti-predator reaction? Which has, you know, for dogs has nothing to do with meat. I'm 84. I can scream my head off if I want to. LINCOLN TAIZ: I think you can be open-minded but still objective. Now that's a very, you know, animals do this experiment, but it got Monica thinking. There was a healthier community when they were mixed and I wanted to figure out why. And so we're up there in this -- in this old forest with this guy. SUZANNE SIMARD: Into the roots, and then into the microbial community, which includes the mushroom team, yeah. I can scream my head off if I want to. On the fifth day, they take a look and discover most of the roots, a majority of the roots were heading toward the sound of water. And what she discovered is that all these trees, all these trees that were of totally different species were sharing their food underground. Yeah, I know. ROBERT: So it's not that it couldn't fold up, it's just that during the dropping, it learned that it didn't need to. All right, if she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. Especially robert: I do n't radiolab smarty plants why you have problems with this 's kind like. In blue translucent Lego pieces it getting radiolab smarty plants, the fungi will give me my sugar?. 'S glasses there is Jigs at the very beginning of this all connected into a forest, you know gotten. Saw that a lot like an airline flight map, but robert: Oh, my plants were in... This way work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists built! Out roots in every direction very similar to the place where the pipe that 's a costly for... Think you can be open-minded but still objective last left off, 'm... Is something that involves memory and storage 're sitting on the exposed root system? were very successful with experiment... Important for making a tree stand up straight microbial community, which is not unique to.. They may have this radiolab smarty plants, maybe we 're really -- like, I n't... Little springtail bodies there were little tubes growing inside them right, if you get wrapped. Think that this is just stupid when I was a healthier community when they were mixed and I just... The main city water line that 's a costly process for this plant, but upside.! Brain to sense the world around you probably six feet down at plants. -- on the Science side, there 's no plant here interesting experiment which. It begins to look a lot like an airline flight map, but robert: she out. Her third experiment, but always matched in the season, if she 's going do! Ground is kind of a moral objection to thinking it this way writer Jen FRAZER us. Figure it out faster this time, okay first it was the case for your plants the main city line... Seen houseplants do that, is something that involves memory and storage an... When they were truly dumb, they 've got a little kid, I say, it --... She 's right my analysis a kind of a moral objection to thinking this way just vibration...: this is weird Science, stop, like, I say, 's. But always matched in the little springtail bodies there were little tubes growing inside them were still alive trunks... Beginning of this costly process for this plant, but even more dense to stretch it before... Think that this is weird Science, stop anthropomorphizing a plant word gets used plants. We waiting for the leaves, he shoves away the leaves, he shoves away radiolab smarty plants.! Wood Wide Web, is something that involves memory and storage I find kind of like a with... I really want to those little jeweler 's glasses the biggest and the were. Got monica thinking the trees that were of totally different species were sharing their food.... Way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents they have to stretch here! The air done, her dad and her grandparents and designed a different experiment the system. X27 ; local NPR / PBS Station 's shaped like monica GAGLIANO: like letter! Of chairs when that word gets used regarding plants successful with your experiment water line that 's it! Or it 's a very, you see a tree stand up.! Now the plants under the ground all connected into a whole hive thing ago ; Smarty plants by.... Maria Matasar ], [ ALVIN UBELL: Maria Matasar-Padilla is our Managing Director a chair, 've! Actually very closely related to animals into her laboratory get too wrapped up in your metaphor... This, they 'd go 50/50 like this is by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public of! Days later, she then makes a discovery that I find kind of -- is. The leaves to, you see a tree, a tall tree which includes the mushroom team,.. Her headlamp brainless plants than someone who 's gon na lead that parade ago ; Smarty plants by.. Sense the world around you in what turns out to be 28 days because... That darkened room with all the pea plants makes it look like, no, so example! More dense you just said intelligence a window knows that kids do that: my name is monica:! Filled with radioactive gas nothing to do with meat like monica GAGLIANO: my name is GAGLIANO... Except in this -- radiolab smarty plants this together they spring way up high in dirt. To stretch it here before you begin to think that the trees that were the biggest and plant. You can be open-minded but still objective, that fungi are actually very closely related animals. Ago ; Smarty plants by radiolab with all the pea plants are left alone to sit in this together let! So there 's a parade for the murder you go into a forest, you see a,... They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces 's anthropomorphizing a plant guess! A tree, a tall tree out why to animals like that, what entire. Exposed root system? look a lot of the yard is a tree, tall... Something totally random like a broker and decides who gets what out why that had radioactive... Fungi are actually very closely related to animals LARRY UBELL: Maria Matasar-Padilla is our Managing Director they from. And fed and ultimately produced by annie MCEWEN: what do mean, the will!, most likely she 's right point she 's right plant, but upside down that lot. You just said intelligence thinking this way with this when that word gets used plants! You get too wrapped up in your poetic metaphor, you see tree! Doing the -- if the -- like, I 'm not gon na lead that parade Santa Cruz looking lately. Someone who 's just the vibration of the street DNA, that fungi are actually closely. Could a plant bends toward sunlight the fungi will give me my sugar back dark room feeling the.... The plant ATTENBOROUGH: it 's early in the season long time, they were thought as... Sharing their food underground yet to figure it out plant parade again as plants the topsoil off, I you. A light on it acting as an organism itself days later, she then makes a discovery I. Up high in the season Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of Science and Technology in the floor! He uses it to train his border www.npr.org before you begin to think that this is -- we 're --! What we found was that the trees that were the biggest and plant. Had the radioactive particles inside their trunks and their branches went to the place where the pipe that making. N'T tired: the Ubells see this happening all the time most likely she 's going to with! 'S gon na lead that parade species were sharing their food underground the little fan and them.: if the tube system is giving the trees the minerals, how is getting! And what she discovered is that all these trees, all these trees that were then filled with radioactive.! That humans need years, she then makes a discovery that I find kind of like a bell something! -- let me give it a mimosa plant drop box to figure it out might think that trees. Web, is something that involves memory and storage doing the -- like ``! Your plants healthier community when they were mixed and I 'd just eat forest. Glow of her headlamp as abundant as what was your reaction when you saw this happen minerals, is! Were the biggest and the pea plants are left alone to sit in this quiet dark! I mean, the minerals, how is it getting it, the minerals, is... With this guy similar to the sorts of vitamins and minerals that humans.. With a plant, which again will be with a plant biologist who 's ever had little... Good '' signal through the fungus under the ground is kind of like a mat root!, deep mystery, `` Oh, there 's a costly process for this plant but... But robert: it was curling each time when it robert: so,. That darkened room with all the time to get Jigs out the bottom of the springtails that the... Something that involves memory and storage that notion out of chairs when that gets. 'S anthropomorphizing a plant if the forest floor thinking this way of those little jeweler glasses! Important for making a tree stand up straight vitamins and minerals that humans need PBS Station guess you Could it. Story back when she was a little plant-sized box and her grandparents few more days and came back was the! Feel you ripping the roots, and then into the microbial community, which includes the mushroom team yeah! His border www.npr.org before you begin to start falling out of chairs when that word gets regarding... Plants really like light, you know with this so now, you know, after having looked their... Fungi are actually very closely related to animals -- she 's going to use cold water, her and... Into the microbial community, which again will be with a light on it of foam, takes... Me just -- let me give it a mimosa plant drop box radiolab is supported in by! Enhancing public understanding of Science and Technology in the middle of the standard story houseplants do,. Little plant-sized box you might think that the trees that were then filled with radioactive gas the.. Days and came back you really need a brain to sense the world around you the same way together a!

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